Curse

UnicornStampede · May 04, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

When I played Hero battles when RR day was around, around 85-90% of people didn't resign, however my rating wasn't 930, so I didn't face those types of people. Maybe if my rating was 930 rating, i would have a different outlook. Regardless, red resign was a low scale problem that became problematic to a small scale in the population of the hero battle community.

The reason why Hero Battles was removed is because Anet completely gave up on Hero Battles and they were going to stop, if they ever even did imo, making serious balance changes for Hero Battles, and the word got around to the competitive HB'ers, and they became outraged and started throwing the mat finals since the mat rewards for hb was a complete joke, which looked horribly on Anet, so they pulled the plug. Saying that a low-scale maybe problematic situation that affected the bad rating hero battlers is why Anet completely removed Hero Battles is foolish.

Skyy High · May 04, 2011, 10:15 PM // 22:15

*toning down language*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

I hope you realize how easy it would be to RR in GvG quest ( people are already doing it anyway) , but there are simply not many doing it people because there was no thread suggesting it....

You can't farm champ points that way. Not without building your rating up a bit, first. 1 win = 1 title point, in HB.

Quote:

Anyway , you mention " new players should not have to scrape and suffer in order to get anywhere "... Isn't a format such as HB the best for those since they can play it when they want to , with no rank required , no party forming needed , having parts of competitiveness ??

Um...no? Winning in HB had absolutely nothing to do with being a good player in any other format. I bolded that last bit because it was difficult to actually be a top player there. I certainly couldn't do it. Why do you think AB is a terrible entry-level arena for new players if they want to learn the game? It's easy to get a group, and it's certainly a lot of fun, but you won't learn much there. HA is probably the most accessible arena in terms of letting new players work their way up from scratch, because it's at least possible to run some meta s***way build until you get enough experience with the format to try something better. And, by then, hopefully you'll have at least r3 to get into better groups.

Quote:

Players come from PvE with their heroes , then get on PvP have to develop their tactics with heroes and that's it.... It's also a good training for GvG to be honest....

No...no it was not. It was all about micromanaging, avoiding combat, capping shrines, and collapsing on trapped heroes when possible.

Quote:

They better make something about Codex in near future ( they said they would improve PvP rewards ) and stop ignoring the format like " guys , (HB + TA)^sealed =win! " and 2 months later " lalalala what is codex ??"

*cross fingers*

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Hero Battles is uniquely easy to abuse. It's not exactly new that ever since the title track was introduced, people have been /rolling for points. The people you've pointed out as clamoring in the update thread that red resigning is a viable alternative just happen to be the people who are less stupid.

There's a difference between people abusing it on a small scale and it being advertised publicly as an easy, harmless way to get free titles and zkeys, with hundreds of districts of people doing it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you claiming that all of those people saying - within hours of the April 28th update, mind you - that there were tons of districts of people telling everyone else to do RR is somehow not indicative that it was a big problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unicorn Stampede

When I played Hero battles when RR day was around, around 85-90% of people didn't resign, however my rating wasn't 930, so I didn't face those types of people. Maybe if my rating was 930 rating, i would have a different outlook.

Isn't that what I just said?

Quote:

Regardless, red resign was a low scale problem that became problematic to a small scale in the population of the hero battle community.

Given what you just admitted, how the heck would you know?

I'll go ahead and say that I don't think RR was the primary reason HB was canned. What I am tired of is the hardcore HB crowd shamelessly denying that it was ever a problem until mean ol' ANet told everyone the arena would be shutting down, like all of RR was just some massive grassroots protest against that grave injustice. It just smacks of revisionism, meant to make the actions of the community - who had been exploiting the arena for rewards for months, years if you include those who did it for title points since the darn thing came out - somehow defensible.

As for HB being dropped because it was unbalanceable....yeah. Pretty much. Everyone knew it, except the people who didn't want to hear it (and, probably, ANet, because they tried to fix it for a long time). The fact that the arena got any attention was vexing to most GvGers, particularly once it became clear that that arena would never amount to much beyond being a gimmicky capfest. I suppose it's not fair to say that the arena was completely unbalanceable, but it would have required a complete overhaul of the maps and a reworking of the base objectives of the arena. Considering how ANet could do those things and still have been left with an arena where the majority of players just /roll-ed or RR-ed for title points, I'm not surprised they decided to say "f*** it, no more solo PvP formats". They're just way too easy to rig.

Is it worth saying that I might actually enjoy an HB format that was just about fighting? Maybe two cap points?

urania · May 04, 2011, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And look where those "demanding" formats have gone. No scalable rewards for poor players = no incentive for new players to come into your format = no new blood populating your arenas = your format dies, end of story. This is precisely why they're consolidating all competitive PvP in GW2 into 5v5 matches. Lower level matches will be random and hot-joinable, and they'll scale up to organized teams playing in official tournaments. That is how you keep fresh players playing your formats, and learning; that is why you can actually work your way up from a random PUB player into a clan player in online FPS games. This notion that new players should have to scrape and suffer in order to get anywhere does not improve the format; they should have to put effort in, and try to get better, but it should be an enjoyable process, not a constant beating that they endure until they catch a lucky break.

those demanding formats became victims of many failed balance decisions, toppled by the final decision to just remove them. new players came in the past, until it became too shitty to bother.

if a game format is good by design, it doesnt need skyrocketting rewards to attract players (at least not those with some feel for pvp). rewards ought to be scaled up properly though (unlike the relation between jq+fa vs ab and ta vs ra is), but seems anet didnt quite figure that one out yet.

you must understand that gw2, unlike gw, will be a pve game with some pvp (whilst GW is, or was, meant to be the opposite), so its obvious they adapted everything to that aim.
competitive pvp, however, will always be about learning from mistakes and suffering defeats on the way up. and its never pleasant and (can or cannot be, depending on what your aim is) fun at the start - the fun comes when you're starting to improve, execute things properly that you couldnt before, stand a fighting chance vs opponents that annihilated you before.
but if losing alone would be fun, why on earth would anyone bother getting better? trying to improve and get somewhere? why would you put up with the frustration that most players face, when you could still enjoy yourself just by being at the bottom of the pvp food chain? sure, some relaxed and dynamic arenas are needed just to loosen up from the competitive atmosphere generated in high end arenas (and AB/TA were just the arenas designed for that in gw), but they ought not to replace the competitive aspect of high end places altogether. or if they do, then gw2 will really be nothing more but just another (though probably good) pve game that tried itself at pvp.

GW used to have a rep of one of the best pvp mmorpgs overall. I wonder what gw2 will become known for, apart from having an innovative approach to pve. If the 5v5 format wont be as demanding as gvg/ta used to be, I see little incentive to ever bother with the game, apart to pve with some of my gw mates (thou by buying the game i support anet, but i wont advise or recommend to anyone they should try it out, as i often have in the past).

on a side note, TA didn't really die, its been killed. shot to the head, one could put it. CA did die though. a slow and painful death.

UnicornStampede · May 04, 2011, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Isn't that what I just said?

Given what you just admitted, how the heck would you know?

People in the 930 rating bracket are the very small minority. So i don't see why you think it was an overwhelming problem. And you saying how would i know this and you saying that's what i just said doesn't make sense.

Elnino · May 05, 2011, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Skyy High: We are talking about Red Resigns. We know very well about /roll being abused, you don't need to post links regarding rolling in HB. We know. We also know that RR was though up right after the /roll nerf. We knew very well that people had attempted red resigning and do paper, scissors, rock, however, it was not widespread and therefore, not a "problem" because it didn't pan out and was gone by May until gaining huge popularity in late August, when it actually became a problem. Get me some proof of RR during the May-early August range and I may believe you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Ever think that maybe, just maybe, you didn't see how widespread it was because your rank kept you from playing against the masses of low/average players who used it? Maybe the high end players were more honorable than that; more likely, they weren't happy with averaging a 50:50 win record.

Being high ranked doesn't blind us from what is going on throughout the ladder.

Quote:

They were nerfed to not work outside of compass range. What, you forget that? It was a big deal at the time.

Hardly a nerf.

Quote:

Not according to the link I posted. Go on, click it, scroll down; everything I posted is true. The point was that HvH got 1/3 the prizes of GvG, and roughly equivalent out-of-game prizes.

That was from 2007 dude. Anet has never updated their website other than it's homepage.

Quote:

LOL, a thread from 2010.

It's interesting that you LOL at a 2010 thread yet post links to threads from 2007 and 2009.

Quote:

Try this on for size: a thread from April 28th, 2009, immediately after the removal of /roll (specifically because, as the OP said, people were using it to farm the title and the ZC quests). Look at the 4th post. The 4th f***ing post!

Re-read what you quoted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I hear 'red resigns' is the new HB rules. If you spawn as the red team, you have to /resign. Simple.

Another genius idea from the devs!

Not reliable I'm afraid.

And since we are posting other's comments . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by evenfall

This is just the general chat at the hero battle outpost.

I played a dozen matches today and never encounter anyone offering to play rock, paper, scissors.

All chat =/= the game and almost all your sources comes from all chat.

Quote:

So....yeah, every single one of your responses was BS in some form or another. You're an HB apologist, and the facts simply do not support your position. You (and the other few people who actually played it competitively) have been repeating these stories to each other for years now, but that doesn't make them true. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply didn't see a lot of the craziness that was going on in HB around that time (because you were waiting for a match against a real opponent, most likely), but that's as far as I'm going.

I was actually tanking at the time of the anniversary so I definately would have noticed if everyone was red resigning but I didn't. I did notice people talking about it in all chat though.

Quote:

No...no it was not. It was all about micromanaging, avoiding combat, capping shrines, and collapsing on trapped heroes when possible.

If that were true, 4v4 encounters would have never occured - but they did. Capping shrines also involves killing/overpowering any foes that happen to be there you know . . .

Quote:

tons of districts

Only happened after the announced removal.

I'll go ahead and say that I don't think RR was any reason HB was canned. What I am tired of is the non-HB/PvE crowd shamelessly denying that it wasn't a problem before mean ol' ANet told everyone the arena would be shutting down, like all of RR was just some massive grassroots protest for that grave injustice. It just smacks of revisionism, meant to make the actions of the non-community - who had been exploiting the arena for rewards for months, years if you include those who did it for title points since the darn thing came out - somehow indefensible.

As for HB being dropped because it was unbalanceable....nah. Pretty much. Everyone didn't know it, except the people who cared about HB (and, definately not ANet, because they never tried to fix it). The fact that the arena got any attention was vexing to most GvGers, particularly once it became clear that that arena would never amount to much beyond being seriously in need of love. I suppose it's not fair to say that the arena was completely unbalanceable, but it would have required a couple of small balances here and there to make it considerably better. Considering how ANet could do those things and still have been left with an arena where some players just /roll-ed or RR-ed (towards the end) for title points, I'm not surprised they decided to say "f*** you, we're too lazy". It's just way too easy to delete it.

Quote:

Is it worth saying that I might actually enjoy an HB format that was just about fighting? Maybe two cap points?

What's the difference between 2 cap point and 4? The fact that you don't have to be as skilled?

Missing HB · May 05, 2011, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

1- You can't farm champ points that way. Not without building your rating up a bit, first. 1 win = 1 title point, in HB.

2- Um...no? Winning in HB had absolutely nothing to do with being a good player in any other format. I bolded that last bit because it was difficult to actually be a top player there. I certainly couldn't do it. Why do you think AB is a terrible entry-level arena for new players if they want to learn the game? It's easy to get a group, and it's certainly a lot of fun, but you won't learn much there. HA is probably the most accessible arena in terms of letting new players work their way up from scratch, because it's at least possible to run some meta s***way build until you get enough experience with the format to try something better. And, by then, hopefully you'll have at least r3 to get into better groups.

No...no it was not. It was all about micromanaging, avoiding combat, capping shrines, and collapsing on trapped heroes when possible.

1- I hope you realize that the point of RR was to abuse the repeatable zquest right ?? You get 2 fights then 6k points ... That could be the same in GvG , you would win 1 fight then 9k points.... Aswell , i can't remember many players did RR on non-quest days...( a few did , but really not a lot compared to quest days...)

2- Quite pointless post... You mean entry level in HA is easy because you just play meta get points , then get higher groups , etc..... Did you ever heard of builds in HB such as dual meld , mo/w + 3r/p , 123 sins , etc... Ok those had to be perfectly played to get top rank , but it was shown than complete beginners could get around 1150-1200 rating in a few time thanks to those builds.........

By the way , if HB and GvG got 0 link , can you explain me why guilds that appeared after it's delete such as new [LaG] or [Est] are full of top HB'ers and yet got very quickly very good results ??But well , if you believe GvG has nothing to do with micromanaging , collasping on trapped heroes , etc... you probably never played those formats .....

Skyy High · May 05, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

"PvP shud be haerd!"

BS. See: every competitive FPS game in existence. You go into a PUB server, you're playing the same game with the same weapons as the pros. Maybe there are a few rules changes, maybe team sizes are a little bigger to make it less easy for one terrible player to completely ruin his team, but that's it; every other skill is immediately transferable from intro-level PvP to high-end PvP. Oh, and yes, rewards shouldn't be necessary if the game is good enough, but GW is an RPG, and every PvP format gives rewards to some degree or another, which means that if your players aren't feeling rewarded in one format, they'll move to another. Hell, even the FPSes have figured out that "playing just for fun" isn't really the best motivator to keep people playing, that's why the newest generation of big FPS games has levels and ranks and perks to earn.

As for GW2 being focused on providing a better PvE experience...well, if you're comparing it to Prophecies, yeah. That's what most players played, and Prophecies was pretty bad for a pure PvE player. I fail to see how "improving the PvE game" necessitates that the PvP is going to be terrible. This BS has come up before, and I've said the same thing before: the features they're promising are exactly what dedicated PvP players have been asking for for years. Instant UAX? Yes please. Integrated tournament and ladder support? Beautiful. Merging competitive formats to keep the player base large, strong, and (hopefully) encourage people to actually move from low-end PvP to high-end? Yes, yes, yes. Cries of "GW2 PvP will suck" are about as nonsensical as the old cries of "GW2 is vaporware".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

Skyy High: We are talking about Red Resigns. We know very well about /roll being abused, you don't need to post links regarding rolling in HB. We know.

The two are inextricably linked. They represent the same attitude that permeated the arena from its inception. ANet tried to kill it by disallowing /roll, then they had to ban /rps, but players could not be stopped. RR was just the last manifestation of that before they decided to pull the plug, for balance reasons. RR just didn't help the situation.

Quote:

We also know that RR was though up right after the /roll nerf. We knew very well that people had attempted red resigning and do paper, scissors, rock, however, it was not widespread and therefore, not a "problem" because it didn't pan out and was gone by May until gaining huge popularity in late August, when it actually became a problem. Get me some proof of RR during the May-early August range and I may believe you.

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have known in May 2009 that I should be taking screenshots of all the people doing RR, just so I could argue with concrete walls in 2011. The threads I linked from late April show that /roll was a problem, and that RR took its place pretty quickly. The threads from August show that RR was popular even then; yes, it gained popularity after the August announcement, but it was a common thing to have "RR days" throughout that summer.

I love how now I have to provide evidence, not only that people were talking about it on forums and in all-chat, but that people were actually doing it. Talk about moving the goalposts....how the hell am I supposed to provide that kind of evidence? I gave you my evidence, and the best you can do is "that doesn't prove that people did it, just that they were talking about it"? C'mon! Tell you what: you prove to me that people weren't doing it, because as of this point you're just spouting a lot of hot air, and I've done all the forum digging.

Oh, and yes, I laughed at your thread from 2010 and submitted threads from 2007 and 2009, because that's the relevant time period. I already said that the HB faithful have been whitewashing this mess since the arena was closed, that's been going on for years. A thread from 2010 is just a repetition of the same stuff you're spewing now. A thread from 2009 will actually show what people were saying during the RR period. How thick do you have to be to not see which is the more relevant evidence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

I hope you realize that the point of RR was to abuse the repeatable zquest right ??

Not when it was done with /roll. I know RR days were on ZC quest days, but it happened on off-days too. Not as much, no, but it did.

Quote:

Quite pointless post... You mean entry level in HA is easy because you just play meta get points , then get higher groups , etc..... Did you ever heard of builds in HB such as dual meld , mo/w + 3r/p , 123 sins , etc... Ok those had to be perfectly played to get top rank , but it was shown than complete beginners could get around 1150-1200 rating in a few time thanks to those builds.........

It's really more about being a team format, vs. a solo format. It's much easier to get better - even if you're using a meta build - if you're surrounded by better players.

Quote:

By the way , if HB and GvG got 0 link , can you explain me why guilds that appeared after it's delete such as new [LaG] or [Est] are full of top HB'ers and yet got very quickly very good results ??But well , if you believe GvG has nothing to do with micromanaging , collasping on trapped heroes , etc... you probably never played those formats .....

Good HB players are probably good PvP players. It took dedication to get good enough at HB to actually be a top player, and it takes dedication to be a top PvP player in any format. That does not mean, however, that the skills learned in HB are directly transferable to any other PvP format. Some, sure. Positioning, watching the minimap, stuff like that...but how to actually win a match? What frontliners, midliners, and backliners should be doing? How, when, and why you split, push at the stand, gank NPCs/GL? Hell, how to run (and catch) a spike? Not to mention the skills necessary to run individual builds that simply never made much of an appearance in HB (proper warriors, midliners, etc).

In other words, correlation, not causation. And, even if you make the argument that HB taught some relevant skills, a new player would learn those skills a hell of a lot faster and more reliably in other, more relevant formats, with a team coaching you and all of the extraneous (micromanaging heroes) stuff removed.

*lemming* · May 05, 2011, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

By the way , if HB and GvG got 0 link , can you explain me why guilds that appeared after it's delete such as new [LaG] or [Est] are full of top HB'ers and yet got very quickly very good results ??But well , if you believe GvG has nothing to do with micromanaging , collasping on trapped heroes , etc... you probably never played those formats .....

I doubt that the exact skills translate well, but the same desire to be the best and the attitude that drives it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

The two are inextricably linked. They represent the same attitude that permeated the arena from its inception. ANet tried to kill it by disallowing /roll, then they had to ban /rps, but players could not be stopped. RR was just the last manifestation of that before they decided to pull the plug, for balance reasons. RR just didn't help the situation.

There's a signup thread for RR that I can't seem to find anymore. Anyone know where it is?

Elnino · May 06, 2011, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

The two are inextricably linked. They represent the same attitude that permeated the arena from its inception. ANet tried to kill it by disallowing /roll, then they had to ban /rps, but players could not be stopped. RR was just the last manifestation of that before they decided to pull the plug, for balance reasons. RR just didn't help the situation.

It's obvious /roll and RR are of the same vein. Difference is RR only became a problem in August 2009. Whereas /roll was a problem up until it's nerf. I don't even know why /roll is being discussed atm because I agree with what you have to say about it. Just not the RR stuff.

Quote:

The threads I linked from late April show that /roll was a problem, and that RR took its place pretty quickly.

Only proof of /roll which we already know. RR did take it's place, but it only became problematic in August.

Quote:

I love how now I have to provide evidence, not only that people were talking about it on forums and in all-chat, but that people were actually doing it. Talk about moving the goalposts....how the hell am I supposed to provide that kind of evidence? I gave you my evidence, and the best you can do is "that doesn't prove that people did it, just that they were talking about it"? C'mon! Tell you what: you prove to me that people weren't doing it, because as of this point you're just spouting a lot of hot air, and I've done all the forum digging.

Unfortunately, Guru did not archive the threads from the HB sub-forum (why didn't they?) which contained the proof you needed. As a result, you're going to have to believe the real HBers.

Quote:

Oh, and yes, I laughed at your thread from 2010 and submitted threads from 2007 and 2009, because that's the relevant time period. I already said that the HB faithful have been whitewashing this mess since the arena was closed, that's been going on for years. A thread from 2010 is just a repetition of the same stuff you're spewing now. A thread from 2009 will actually show what people were saying during the RR period. How thick do you have to be to not see which is the more relevant evidence?

The fact that people posting in 2010 were around in 2007-2009 and have based their posts around those time periods makes 2010 as relevant as 2007-2009. People can remember things you know.

Quote:

it happened on off-days too.

It was pretty much just one guild of serious HBers that were RR'ing between April and August and August was when they decided to go public about it so that they could get more points in the HB title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

There's a signup thread for RR that I can't seem to find anymore. Anyone know where it is?

Gone with the HB sub-forum I'm afraid. Interesting to note that, all those that signed up for that had intentions to gain points in the Commander title, and not for bahltazar faction on zquest day. By doing the former, they realized the benefits of the latter.

Missing HB · May 06, 2011, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

It's really more about being a team format, vs. a solo format. It's much easier to get better - even if you're using a meta build - if you're surrounded by better players.

I think there's a difference here , between thinking getting good coz you gain points easily on a bar , than getting really good....I could quote plenty of r9-12 players , even some r13-14 that have no clue what they're doing , just farming HA with most effective builds....
You don't really learn anything by playing fire ele , bbwar , ST rit , dervish whole time to be honest....

I don't believe it's quite fair to claim being a top player in GvG or HA , but being terrible when it comes to show personal skills in HB ...Remember Hadshi was one of the rare players to run non-meta bars , yet made it many times till finals.... Many players i remember being good at GvG were very good at HB ....

StormX · May 06, 2011, 08:46 AM // 08:46

There's a guy in GtoB spamming "wts codex points 1k each 3/4" Is this a scam or has codex gone that far down the shitter?

urania · May 06, 2011, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

BS. See: every competitive FPS game in existence. You go into a PUB server, you're playing the same game with the same weapons as the pros. Maybe there are a few rules changes, maybe team sizes are a little bigger to make it less easy for one terrible player to completely ruin his team, but that's it; every other skill is immediately transferable from intro-level PvP to high-end PvP. Oh, and yes, rewards shouldn't be necessary if the game is good enough, but GW is an RPG, and every PvP format gives rewards to some degree or another, which means that if your players aren't feeling rewarded in one format, they'll move to another. Hell, even the FPSes have figured out that "playing just for fun" isn't really the best motivator to keep people playing, that's why the newest generation of big FPS games has levels and ranks and perks to earn.

As for GW2 being focused on providing a better PvE experience...well, if you're comparing it to Prophecies, yeah. That's what most players played, and Prophecies was pretty bad for a pure PvE player. I fail to see how "improving the PvE game" necessitates that the PvP is going to be terrible. This BS has come up before, and I've said the same thing before: the features they're promising are exactly what dedicated PvP players have been asking for for years. Instant UAX? Yes please. Integrated tournament and ladder support? Beautiful. Merging competitive formats to keep the player base large, strong, and (hopefully) encourage people to actually move from low-end PvP to high-end? Yes, yes, yes. Cries of "GW2 PvP will suck" are about as nonsensical as the old cries of "GW2 is vaporware".

stop comparing GW with fps games. they are foremostly solo-oriented games (where single good players can make a big difference and single bad ones dont necesarrily mean you're auto lost), whilst GW at its core was (and fancies it still is) a competitive team-based game, where your team is as good as its weakest link.

catering to pve player base (or if you prefer, catering to the masses) essentially involves a simple, more straightforward, gimmicky and easy to learn pvp format. so by sacrificing quality they gain quantity. given they're after money now, it makes sense to draw in as many as possible, regardless of what they draw in.

overall, i'm talking about quality pvp - given you fully support pvp being dumbed down as much as possible (given the past posts), your thoughts barely hold any valid point regarding pvp.

on a side note, in prophecies pve actually took some skill and competence to complete and essentially created better (pve) players who had a better head start (in pvp) in comp to those starting off in hero/conset era.

*lemming* · May 06, 2011, 08:54 AM // 08:54

People have been selling codex points since like a month after it opened. That's how few people actually play it.

Anet won't ban syncers because of "insufficient evidence," although they did recently ban a cx10 account that was being sold on QQ forums.

Missing HB · May 06, 2011, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormX

There's a guy in GtoB spamming "wts codex points 1k each 3/4" Is this a scam or has codex gone that far down the shitter?

Pretty much also abusing the fact that all non-random PvP formats are totally empty at this hours.....
HA is empty , there are 6 players in the district , noone to face , last hall is between 3-8 hours ago
GvG might have a few guilds on tournament , but noone is laddering
Codex is empty....

So basically , you're a PvE'r , 1k isn't really expensive and many will believe that they will get " cool looking " title easily.... But i actually didn't know that people got to the point of selling codex title though....

Chocobo1 · May 06, 2011, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Pretty much also abusing the fact that all non-random PvP formats are totally empty at this hours.....
HA is empty , there are 6 players in the district , noone to face , last hall is between 3-8 hours ago
GvG might have a few guilds on tournament , but noone is laddering
Codex is empty....

So basically , you're a PvE'r , 1k isn't really expensive and many will believe that they will get " cool looking " title easily.... But i actually didn't know that people got to the point of selling codex title though....

It's been going on since a bit after it came out

urania · May 06, 2011, 09:57 AM // 09:57

at Skyy High, digged out a few on-spot posts from the pvp section (where this thread actually belongs to) to further support my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Errant Venture

PvP was (is) the only moderately well designed feature in guild wars. The Guild Wars game engine was built from the ground up as a PvP game. PvE was completely unimportant until after factions launched when Arenanet realized games geared towards PvE create much more revenue than PvP-oriented games. Hence the absolute lack of attention focused on PvP since the Factions world tourney and the single-minded devotion to PvE found in GW2.

-> hence why my point about GW2 being a pve game with some extra pvp. and the attention of the devs will be distributed accordingly.

Regarding my point about FPS, read this post written by Ensign (I also advise reading the whole thread).
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=48

The last paragraph in his post is something you wanted to make point of, and i agree with it to some extent. But having a completely dumbed down pvp where skill and good tactical decisions count for virtually nothing is not what "accessible" pvp should be about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lews

I just hope that they won't go too far with GW2. As you said, at the very high end PvP is an amazingly beautiful act. Everyone has their part and, done correctly, it is a fantastic thing to experience. It's one of the few things that brings me back to this game - I miss that. The feeling of a well-run machine or some play. Everyone working together, everyone fulfilling their role. Hopefully with GW2 Arena Net can strike that balance between accessibility and depth.

I miss the coordination and fun I had in TA with my regulars, because it was just as he puts it . A fantastic thing to experience.
This is why high end PVP used to be so great. I don't believe that can be repeated without having a pvp of similar quality and characteristics. And it is most definitely not something you can experience in pve.

UnicornStampede · May 19, 2011, 12:17 AM // 00:17

If you want any shot to even get r1 codex, you have to either sync or play on quest day.

Swingline · May 19, 2011, 04:32 AM // 04:32

I will say this, give ANet one shot at fixing codex and if it doesnt change anything go with post #2's idea and take the nerf flamethrower to it.

Missing HB · May 19, 2011, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnicornStampede

If you want any shot to even get r1 codex, you have to either sync or play on quest day.

Playing on quest day is still a bit hard to be honest... Except if you play on the only hour there is a full district ( i.e around 10pm gmt) , which equals to many teams , rest of times there are at best 3 teams , including 1 guild team farming other ones....
It's pretty hard to beat a guild team( i'm referring to non PvE guilds, mainly corresponding to r10 HA'ers) when you have no choice about players , nor about builds to be honest... It's on the same resort of fighting syncing teams with random team in RA , the only difference is that you choose your professions.....
Being able to antibuild , like in TA , is probably the only way a pug team will beat a guild team in codex.....

Skyy High · May 19, 2011, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

-> hence why my point about GW2 being a pve game with some extra pvp. and the attention of the devs will be distributed accordingly.

That wasn't an argument. Errant Venture just asserted the same thing you asserted, without any evidence (specifically talking about GW2 here, ignoring the rest of the quote). Every scrap of information we have about GW2 PvP contradicts you, so I will continue calling you and anyone else out who claims that GW2 is a PvE game. It will have better PvE than GW2, but it will also have better PvP. Oh, yeah, more people will play PvE, and there will certainly be larger areas in the world given over to it...but the quality of PvP was never determined solely by the number of areas available to play it in.

Quote:

Regarding my point about FPS, read this post written by Ensign (I also advise reading the whole thread).
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=48

The last paragraph in his post is something you wanted to make point of, and i agree with it to some extent. But having a completely dumbed down pvp where skill and good tactical decisions count for virtually nothing is not what "accessible" pvp should be about.

No, see, that was exactly what I was saying. It's telling that when you see an argument from a guy like Ensign, you're like, "Oh yeah, that makes sense," but when I say it, you think I'm some PvE scrub who is QQ-ing about not being able to get into PvP. Piss off; I played plenty of high level PvP, years ago, and I had a ton of fun with it. Life got in the way, I had to stop, and I haven't had the time, inclination, or contacts to continue. My guild right now is a bunch of complete PvEers who I doubt have ever stepped foot in GvG, but I stick with them because I at least know them well and I have fun with them. Huzzah for GW2 letting me change guilds between characters....

Anyway, yeah, apparently Ensign convinced you of my point for me. GW1 PvP is just terrible to get into for a new player now; casual PvP simply does not do enough to prepare someone for that jump. That's why I'm excited about the way GW2 will handle it. No matter how late in the game you start, you'll be able to work your way up through the 5v5 arenas to the point where you can, theoretically, if you work at it, get good enough to play actual GvG (equivalent). Accessibility has absolutely nothing to do with difficulty, depth, strategy, or anything else you think I've been arguing about. Chess is wonderfully accessible, so is Starcraft; both of them allow you to get better on a gradual curve, and you find yourself playing better and better opponents as you improve without ever hitting a wall you need someone else to pull you over (which is basically how you improve in GW1 now, by getting a guild to tell you what to do and following their directions). The barrier between RA/AB/FA and GvG or even HA is enormous, and there is no "casual" way to experience these types of arenas.

tl;dr: I never said I wanted to "dumb down" PvP, that's not the same thing as making it more accessible, GW2 will do that, stop assuming I'm some PvE scrub who hates PvP. 'K?